Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries, Airport Overviews Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more. At that point, the right main gear lifted off the The same sort of conditions facing Gilbert, Reichel and Walsh in Mexico City in '79: https://www.airlinereporter.com/2015/09/requiem-trijet-masterpiece-lockheed-l-1011-tristar/tristar-can-land-itself/, - section created at 21:25, 4 January 2020 (unsigned contribution) by 73.61.11.230, George B. Parker, Associate Professor of Safety Institute of Safety and Systems Management University of Southern California contributed the following paper to the "Proceedings of the Twelfth International Seminar of the International Society of Air Safety Investigators" which was a conference (?) We know that runway 23L was closed to traffic that day, as the runway was being resurfaced. that just after Reichel's calm call to go around the aircraft collided with the dump truck. In addition, he was having enough of a problem (The paper is easy to source online). (But the pilots did anyway, probably as they did far more often that didn't end in some kind of horrific hull loss, and perhaps as Gilbert was doing in '79. ) On October 31, 1979, at 5:42 a.m. CST, the aircraft used for the flight, a McDonnell Douglas DC-10, crashed at Mexico City International Airport in fog, after landing on a runway closed for maintenance. CVR of Western Airlines 2605, terrifying. Valable sur un trajet avec TER entre Grenoble et une gare de la rgion au-del de Grenoble-Alpes Mtropole. Acheter. held at the Hyatt-Regency Hotel Washington, DC September 29-0ctober 1, 1981. - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019, We can surmise (?) If such an experienced pilot can become the victim of such circumstances, As Flight 2605 approached Mexico City International Airport, air traffic controllers cleared it for an instrument approach using the ILS of Runway 23L, with an expected landing runway of 23R. - paragraph added at 17:40 + amended at 17:43 and 17:46, 24 November (unsigned contributions) by 173.120.148.69, and 23:37, 30 November (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.180.238, and 01:17 and 03:22, 1 December 2019 (unsigned contributions) by 173.153.15.41, Would touching down (2 g) on the left wheels have elicited such an ominous outcry? Altitude callouts were required and may not have been done, but the ILS wasn't known to be giving erroneous readings but the plane 'half-landed',straight in to 23L, no flare, and half in the grass. (Did they know where they were more specifically?) The aircraft speed decreased from 136 knots to 128 knots. The plane is surrounded by heavy, dense fog and other than this view into the cockpit there is no visibility. McDonnell Douglas made a design change and moved the location of the hydraulic lines from the floor to the ceiling, as the under floor mounted lines were crushed by the collapse of the floor following decompression in that crash. Airport overviews from the air or ground, Tails and Winglets for about 400 feet on the main landing gear. The event is the third-deadliest aviation accident to occur on Mexican soil after the crashes of two Boeing 727s: the 1969 crash of Mexicana de Aviacin Flight 704 and Mexicana de Aviacin Flight 940 in 1986. I don't know how this can be verified but perhaps it is correct. 1.5K. Flying Magazine is not a credible source. What happened was it was 3am, they were all half asleep on the job and descended into the ground, and one main gear happened to come into contact with a closed runway. " accident had to be one of human factors. Is the ALPA report secret or proprietary? Cookie Notice . Page contents not supported in other languages. We may share certain information about our users with our advertising and analytics partners. I recall hearing the CVR on this one years ago, a difficult one in its last monent, still huants me to this day, very sad. Population: 6,630 People Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft, Special Paint Schemes . The final moments of the pilots will make your hair stand on end. This page was generated at 03:03. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westernes_Flight_2605, http://aviation-safety.net/database/?id=19791031-0, http://books.google.com/books?id=8BVpage&q&f=false, http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fod.main/130485/, http://tvnews.vanderbilt.edu/program.pl?ID=57025, http://web.archive.org/web/200910220/blackbox.html, http://www.diecastaircraftforum.com/-tapes-cd.html, http://www.taxiways.de/DC-10/accident/N903WA.html, If this is your first visit, be sure to Privacy Policy. Flight 2605 remains the deadliest air accident to have occurred in Mexico City. A main source for this wikipedia page appears to be an article from "Flying Magazine" which lacks the detail of other reports and sources. Nine pages of information from the ICAO circular might be "too much" information but an effort to add notable information might be helpful. "There is also the possibility that the ILS signal could have been unstable due A friend of the Western Airlines DC-I0 captain had I emailed the gracious Mr. Valenciana and he tells me his description of the crash in his book mentions a violent initial impact. Flight 2605 remains the deadliest air accident to have occurred in Mexico City. Other entries are my opinions as well. Encore moins cher pour les -26 ans. Bingo. The front wheels never touched the runway until perhaps the aircraft was destroyed. (American Airlines 1420) Pilots exhibited more recklessness if they fell behind schedule especially if landing at night and other aircraft landed successfully before them. Western Airlines immediately lost a number of hubs following deregulation, only to retain Salt Lake City and Los Angeles. LAST WORDS ON FLIGHT: BRACE CHARLES! The damage sustained by the aircraft after impact with the truck was such that continued control flight was not possible. 1 mois de voyages illimits. As a lay person with a recent fascination with this crash, I'm assuming this was the truck collision by the noises on the CVR. Accident, incident and crash related photos, Air to Air There is no official report that we know of that gives any credence to this rumor. AR385. Western Airlines 2605 is a crash that sticks out in my mind as one of the most mysterious accidents of all time, as comparatively little about the accident itself has been released to the public. Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe, Classic Airliners The plane landed in the shoulder in the wrong runway, without tower clearance, after at what was at best a shoddy approach, collided with a big, heavy truck and we know the rest. . From Appendix F Aeronautical Decision Making Cockpit Resource Management: "The right main landing gear was severed and, as it swung aft, it and the destroyed truck wreckage impacted the right inboard flap and aileron which was carried away. This is blather with ludicrous speculation. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. Pilot error but more directly false ILS signal phenomenon. ATC: "O.K., sir, approach lights are on the runway 23 left, but that runway is closed to traffic.". Aircraft flying government officials, Helicopters Include these with the other problems he would One wing clearly had more lift than the other. The entire CVR is not easily accessable. The L1011 was a more costly plane but generally regarded as a better designed aircraft in many ways. done flyin'." American Eagle flight 4184, an ATR 72 flying from IND to ORD, crashed in Northern Indiana on October 31, 1994, which was 25 years ago yesterday. - para break moved by 173.120.246.108 (unsigned contribution), at 20:30, 25 December 2019, Can you or I elucidate a point that otherwise sounds just as convincing as Garrison's op-ed? Mexico and the US both consider tourism to be critically important. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Actress Carole Lombard won a coin toss against her mother and Clark Gable's press agent Otto Winkler when deciding whether they would fly or go by train back to LA. All of them involved pilot fatigue, either from He has suggested an international cover up. Things moved very quickly. About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright . - paragraph amended at 21:05, 30 December by 173.120.131.243 and 00:00, 31 December 2019 by 173.120.182.80 (unsigned contributions), Bordering on the fantastic Eduardo claims the Mexican police kidnapped him and were trying to force him to sign confessions or affidavits stating the pilots were drunk on liquor he had served them during the flight. Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries, Airport Overviews Ironically the article is surrounded by more pages of advertisements than its total page count. give him a different crew if he would fly this one last flight By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. Audio recording of Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR. Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft, Special Paint Schemes I'd like to reply to yours as well. The concern was that both the deal and tourism would be negatively impacted if Mexico took most of the blame for the deadly accident. We'll just consider it a "personal best" for the airport. The impact with the truck didn't destroy the plane, it continued to fly therefore we can assume the pilots would be actively talking (or screaming) until the next impacts and the final impact and their and the plane's destruction. Is this necessary? Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos. Presumably the incident that FA Valenciana wrote about in his book (incidently changing the names of the pilots which is probably for legal reasons but not so much that you don't know who he is talking about) where Gilbert is yelling at Reichel would be captured with context by the CVR. Flying Magazine discredits the ALPA report. The plane then quickly hit the truck, the electric pole, the excavator cab and finally the building. 68 people died in that crash. the flight path in reaction to the unstable localizer course." A periodical featuring an advertisement of the L1011 depicts a perspective just off the nose of the aircraft. Aircraft flying government officials, Helicopters The CVR recording has a violent crashing sound which could be the initial collision with the dump truck and immediately following this is pilot Charles Gilbert's exclamation of "Jesus Christ" and a complete change of intensity in the cockpit. check out the. The aircraft did not hit particularly hard - the left wheels on the side of 23L only - 2 g of force is not "hard" or that unusual according to reports on the DC-10 or other aircraft for that matter. He discredits ALPAs conclusions. Walsh (?) Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR, Military Aircraft Note that the L1011 and B747 of the same era would lock the slats outward in the event of hydraulic fluid loss. the distant horizon-c-at least for air carrier investigations and our For additional details, refer to our Privacy Policy. However it is the content of the article that readers should focus on. and our This is his recollection which conflicts with two reports. Norton Air Force Base, this time period typifies the normal reaction time of Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin, Night Photos Gilbert, Reichel and Walsh flew the Night Owl route on October 31 as a back up crew. American Eagle flight 4184, an ATR 72 flying from IND to ORD, crashed in Northern Indiana on October 31, 1994, which was 25 years ago yesterday. I don't know what the comment above means when it says the CVR contained "the required information." I have read something that suggests there was a disagreement in the cockpit about matters unrelated to the actual landing stage of the flight. I have read nothing that suggests there was a disagreement in the cockpit as they prepared for landing. mined by the investigation board. All times are GMT. [9] . Another piece of frustration. Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin, Night Photos Might be good to add that detail. I replied to one post below that had the time of day wrong concerning the accident. ATC: Can you see the approach light to the left? Discover your dream home among our modern houses, penthouses and. On October 31, 1979, the aircraft used for the flight, a McDonnell Douglas DC-10,. ", - section created at 20:44, 30 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.131.243, Eduardo Valenciana has written a book containing a fair amount of material dedicated to the flight and the events of the crash: " Jumpseat, A Tale of Twisted Fate". Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR Crash Recording, Scan this QR code to download the app now. What time is it in Saint-Ismier? - paragraph amended at 23:09, 25 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.246.108, What responsibility did Western management have for the crash of 2605? Other entries are my opinions as well. It should be mentioned (perhaps in the main article) that if 2605 had somehow landed "properly" on the "wrong" runway 23L, the accident probably wouldn't have happened. after initial touch down, when all engines were increased to a little over 100 Otherwise his assertions aren't serious. This flight departed late in the evening and who knows how long the crew had been on duty or how much rest they had gotten, apparently not much. As an example, there is an immediate inconsistencies about what the tower is told the crew about approach lights and the ICAO report on the condition of those lights.[/quote]. Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon, Accidents We thank you for your support and hope you'll join the largest aviation community on the web. Pilot Gilbert got on the power (100%) before the impact with the truck and after Reichel calmly called to go around after everyone agreed they were at 23L. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Our large helicopter section. The Originals Boutique, Htel Les Trois Roses, Grenoble Meyla. Western Airlines Flight 2605 19 Reply kapotchaboii 1 yr. ago Airplane lands accidantaly on the wrong runway half in the grass, half in the shoulder, try to power up the engines for a new try. The Spanish language page is similar to the English version. Whether the motivation is morbid curiosity or not I think it is worthwhile. BY AR385 - Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:03 am - Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:03 am #10741679. Why was the construction contractor permitted to have equipment all over (or along the side of) the runway with the ILS system? $73. To be continued.. - paragraph added at 01:17, 1 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.15.41, - section created by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019 (+ heading amended by 173.120.246.108 at 20:40, 25 December 2019) - unsigned contributions, How much information is too much information? What else would with his crew that he had requested several times to have However, this could very well have been the initial touchdown. 1 / 3. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. SquisherDa (talk) 10:16, 24 October 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]. If you found this video to be interesting, be sure to subscribe as there is a new video every Saturday. A key result of the engine detachment and hydraulic failure was the atypical slat retraction of the DC-10 in these circumstances. - the eternal DI, Western was founded by a guy who flew for the RAF in WWI. Here is an excerpt from the "Aeronautical Decision Making Cockpit Resource Management" report describing the flight data recorder findings: There's no indication they are having a disagreement of any kind during the landing phase or minutes before it. For more information, please see our I remember flying into that airport a couple months later. will not be used to prevent other accidents. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. 9 seconds later the CVR ends, or at least what is available on youtube ends. found him noticeably upset about the trip to Mexico City. A well known problem is the potential for erroneous glideslope and/or localizer indications caused by movement of aircraft or equipment through ILS critical areas. We thank you for your support and hope you'll join the largest aviation community on the web. Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.120.156.105 (talk) 22:49, 11 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply], Engineers blamed the design of hydraulic lines in the DC-10 as a contributing factor to the deadly March 3, 1974 Turkish Airlines DC-10 crash caused primarily by a cargo door failure and the subsequent violent decompression.